Legends: Terry Daynard
A Firebreak Legends of Agriculture Interview
The Firebreak is introducing a new section: “Legends” where we interview some of the legendary actors in different fields, benefitting from their experience and observations on various policy issues in the news. This first Legends of Agriculture interview is with Canadian agriculture leader, academic and farmer: Terry Daynard.
The evolution of farming over the last 60 years has been impressive. Terry Daynard has been a part of this history and has witnessed the key changes in agriculture over six decades. From the rise of technologies and heavy machinery to the academic evolution to global commodity markets to precision agriculture, no one has had a better front row seat than Terry. At 80, he is still a pioneer, working today with his mapping software and his drone to see how agriculture continues to evolve.
Firebreak editor, David Zaruk, had the opportunity to interview Terry across a wide range of issues. David wanted to get his perspectives on the evolutions that have happened over the last 60 years, how farmers contact with the public has changed, the nature of people going into university to study agriculture, the rise of activist groups, climate issues and the future of agriculture.
Early Days
Terry grew up on a farm near Mitchell, Ontario, Canada. His father was a small farmer, with a 100 acre farm, as well as being a United Church minister. He had paid 4500 CAD for the farm and took 20 years to pay off the mortgage. As a child, Terry worked many Saturdays at the neighbour’s farm for 5 CAD a day which, back then, was good money.
He studied agriculture at Guelph at the then Ontario Agriculture College (OAC). OAC will celebrate its 150th anniversary next year. Today it is part of the University of Guelph which also celebrates 60 years next year. They built the University of Guelph around OAC, which, as Terry noted, is not a bad thing as so many ag colleges, especially in the UK, have not survived.
Terry and his wife, Dot, did not want to move around. They wanted to farm. So he did grad work at OAC and bought a farm with 150 crop acres. The farm gave him added financial security to his academic work. 150 acres is not big. If it were a full time operation in Ontario, you would need around 2000 acres (while in the Canadian prairies, closer to 5000 acres for a viable full-time operation, with many farms going up to 25,000).
Terry feels that the trend toward larger farms will not change. Equipment is expensive and getting bigger. He doesn’t see anything from stopping farming equipment and farms from getting bigger. At any time, an average farmer can have half a million dollars’ worth of equipment in a field.
So I had to ask him if we should follow the French peasants campaign and demand a stop to industrial farming and replace it with organic?
On Organic Farming
Terry’s view is poignant here: “The organic guys are here to stay. I used to be against organic but not anymore. If people want to buy organic they can spend their money on that. It’s like people who buy a 60 inch TV instead of a 40 inch one. It’s their money. The food is basically safe but to supply the world with organic food would be impossible. There’s also a limited market for people willing to pay that much.”
Terry argues that organic farming is a good way for young people to get into agriculture. How is a young person able to get into this game where there are millions of dollars of investments needed? Organic is one way many can afford to start out given the costs. Musing on earlier days: “They don’t have much money, but they have strong backs and they’re capable of working up to 20 hours a day.”
From Daynard’s own experience, organic farmers are trying to do a lot of things and they are good people. He feels though that the organic advocacy groups are often frauds and you can’t believe much that comes from them.
One big question from the anti-agricultural activism is what happens to the livestock industry. “I am not sure many of the anti-livestock people have thought this through. I don’t know how you can really manage your soils if you’re just growing all annual crops. Perennial forages are really important for maintaining soil structure.”
If you were to take livestock out of the equation, it would be devastating to grain farmers. People say you could rewild the land, but who is going to pay for that?
On No-Till and Regenerative Farming
No-till is now the norm and it seems to work well in Western Canada with the dryer soils. You have mixed results in wetter climates like Ontario and Western Europe. In the early days of this discussion, Terry worked with the International Soil Tillage Research Organization based in the Netherlands. He was involved in the first convention they had held outside of Europe, in Guelph, in 1985. “Back then the Europeans were all into tillage so their question was what kind of proper tillage you should do, while in North America it was about “How do you eliminate tillage?” … so Europe has come a long way now.”
On cover crops, Terry feels they generally work well in places like Belgium where you have almost 12 months of growing season or in southern states in the US. It’s different when you often have two feet of snow on the ground for a winter. But Daynard is closely watching what European farmers are doing.
The term “regenerative agriculture” doesn’t mean anything. There are serious farmers looking at soil conservation practices but then you have NGOs like those who were at Dubai looking at regenerative simply as removing pesticides. Terry feels that’s just misguided. You can reduce pesticides with GM seeds or more efficient practices but if you are moving to no-tillage, then using more glyphosate is actually good.
I notice a lot of the food companies are now keen on supporting regenerative agriculture. Public relations is driving a big part of it and with a lot of that, the people don’t have any clue what is required on the farm. But there is some good financial support in Canada as farmers try to find viable solutions.
Same with the term “sustainable”, something Daynard feels has survived much longer than he thought it would. In any case, “sustainability” is still a better term than “regenerative.”
On Politics
Politics is becoming more significant in farming issues. As farmers become fewer in number (in Canada, under 2%) they become more politically insignificant. We have had a big farming battle in Canada with the carbon tax. If they charge a carbon tax on fuel for drying corn and other grains, there is no real alternative for commercial-scale farmers. And we must compete with grain farmers in the United States who pay no carbon taxes. The Canadian government has, until now, just swept the farmers under the carpet.
“Watching the changes I have seen in France since I started going there in the 1970s (I had several projects there) where they could shut down Paris and grow wheat on the Champs-Élysées, but now they can’t do that anymore. When I was younger I was involved in organizing a farm demonstration in Ottawa. We had a lot of fun but didn’t accomplish anything”
Canadian politicians are still by and large supporting farmers and it looks like the same in the US again as the Farm Bill is renewed. On the GMO battlefield, Terry feels there is no battle in Canada: Greenpeace abandoned the turf. There are still a few small groups but no one is paying attention. The pesticides debate is not getting much ground in Canada except maybe in Quebec. There is nothing here like what I am seeing in Europe, but the question is whether what is happening in Europe will come this way.
Do consumers and voters still understand farmers? Energy is going into trying to get food influencers to represent farmers in a good light. Polls say the consumer still holds the farmer in high regard. Terry feels this is not as good as before, but still not bad. The main issue is if consumers trust farmers (more than understanding all that farmers are doing). It is hard for anyone to understand what they do. The trust level is there but I do worry what I am seeing in Europe; the trust does not seem to be there.
Climate and Farming
Is agriculture a threat to global warming? Terry thinks agriculture is finally taking this issue seriously. Some still argue it is a hoax and it will go away but farm groups – especially beef and dairy – are paying more attention. “We can do a better job and the data are pretty clear. Agriculture has, until now, avoided most of the serious discussions on climate – until now it has been on fossil fuels – but I think that is going to change.” The farm community has to pay attention to the climate issue; the question is how to address emissions, not if.
Daynard has had some differences with climate groups on biofuels. It may not be perfect, but biofuels are pretty good. They won’t be here forever, but they are a good stopgap measure. Farmers have also done well with ethanol. If biofuels disappear, corn growers will have to shift into other crops or find other uses (why Terry is so keen on bioplastics). On the biofuel debate, the key element is cost and corn beats any alternatives for productivity. The issue with corn is nitrogen fertility but anything else that has the same productivity will have the same problem.
It is different in Europe where they import grain from all over the world and make ethanol there. Something which, in Daynard’s opinion, is not very intelligent.
Farmers and Markets
Farmers are fairly sophisticated in playing the commodities futures. By the time many farmers harvest, they will have sold 75% or more. You have the advantage in knowing people have got to eat. There are two Canadas – Western Canada sells to the world market, Ontario generally supplies the domestic market.
Global food commodity trading is a high risk. Going back to the mid-2000s, there were several food trading issues which seriously harmed food importing countries. Fast forward to today, it is surprising that Ukraine has not created a similar issue longer term.
Academic Future Focus
Terry did three degrees at Guelph and then a post-doc in Kentucky. He became a full professor but then decided it was time to do something else (or he would end up in administration). His post-academic CV is impressive:
He was involved in setting up a corn producer organization in Ontario. The idea came from France and he worked for them for 19 years. There he worked on biofuels – an area that has paid off in Ontario and the mid-West US.
He then went back to the university and became associate dean of research for two years.
After that Daynard went into research into compostable biodegradable plastics and tried to get research organizations to open up a plant in Ontario. He did that for four years.
Student Future Focus
What students in the 80s faced is very different from today. I asked Daynard what ag students need to study today?
Precision ag.
“With precision agriculture, you don’t farm 100 acres at a time, you farm one acre at a time.” Terry has been dabbling in it with his own drone and some very sophisticated mapping tools. Guelph is now hiring new people who are good at modelling, software… Until now, the students have not seen the importance of software development. This is a key area.
Farmers will be hiring consultants to be doing this technical work. But Terry’s warning is on point: “In ten years’ time, if you are not into this, I’m not sure you are going to be in the game.”
But with the advance of precision ag and other technologies, Terry asked an important question: Where does Africa fit into all of this? Does our model of agriculture fit there, with our advancing technologies? Daynard feels there are highly intelligent people in agriculture in developing countries. The Chinese are also moving impressively on biotech and genetic engineering. This is perhaps a sign for other countries.
There are enormous opportunities, but what Terry sees the NGOs doing in Africa (as well as the FAO) is wrong.